Curse

NerfHerder · May 28, 2010, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspi

Myself I find it harder to understand why someone would use a bot for pvp.

Same here. PvE is where the gold is. PvP bots are silly to me, well all bots are silly to me. The only satisfaction I get from PvP, is knowing I beat someone because I had a better skillbar and knew how to use it or live closer to the server with a better internet connection :P

StormDragonZ · May 28, 2010, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Rule 1: If you're having fun, good for you.
Rule 2: If you're not having fun, don't play.
Rule 3: If you're not having fun and have to complain about it, don't play because most people wont feel sorry for you.
Rule 4: If you're not having fun and don't complain, but you somehow need to find a reason to feel good about yourself, you are most likely someone who follows the golden rule of online gaming.

You should ask yourself this question: What do people do after they finally get all those titles, items and whatever? This game does have a point where you can say you've done everything possible...

snaek · May 28, 2010, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlsPals

*Sigh* the argument that still does nothing. Titles in the game happen to unlock/enhance aspects of gameplay. You don't need titles to play, but then again, you don't need to play a game with features you disagree with. See what I did?

@snaek
You use the bots to skip portions that you don't have fun with, so you can get to the ones you do have fun with. Unless of course your selling items for cash.

an extra second of sy...really... *yawn*

Golgotha · May 28, 2010, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

an extra second of sy...really... *yawn*

Remember when Ursan was big? Good luck PUG'ing with r1. Rank does affect a lot of skills... but it was cute for you to choose the least affected skill.

By the way, max rank gives you a full 6 seconds, which is a 50% increase from rank1. 50% increase in skill effectiveness makes you yawn? Take a nap.

snaek · May 28, 2010, 10:36 PM // 22:36

ursan was a problem yes...why do you think it got nerfed?

Golgotha · May 28, 2010, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

ursan was a problem yes...why do you think it got nerfed?

Keep dodging the point.

snaek · May 28, 2010, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

Keep dodging the point.

the point that people are so anal to let a few seconds ruining their fun?

the only time it really mattered and where i would agree with you is in the case of something like ursan. since that is long gone however, theres no reason for a non-maxed title to stop your fun.

Amy Awien · May 28, 2010, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlsPals

... Titles in the game happen to unlock/enhance aspects of gameplay. ...

Like ...? The Kurzick/Luxon are about the only ones that require more then just playing the game content regularly (and maybe vanquishing) to unlock/enhance something usefull like in the Nightfall and EotN titletracks.

The Luxon/Kurzick skills are brought to quite decent levels with a few books - I found those 4 player missions fun to redo in HM - and a couple of hours of JQ - which can be fun also.

If you want to bore yourself for 100's of hours getting the last 5%~10% out of these that is your choice, but it's by no means neccesary.

Most titles don't unlock or enhance anything at all.

Golgotha · May 28, 2010, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

the point that people are so anal to let a few seconds ruining their fun?

the only time it really mattered and where i would agree with you is in the case of something like ursan. since that is long gone however, theres no reason for a non-maxed title to stop your fun.

You can have fun using less than max dmg weapons and armor as well. Striving for efficiency within the game is something people have fun with as well. Just because it is not how you play does not dictate that same for every other GW player. Some people find fun in doing the maximum amount of damage and seeing how quickly they can clear areas.

Asuran Scan. Imagine we do 50 damage.
r1 -> +45% = 72.5
r10 -> +75% = 87.5

If you think +15 dmg per attack is significant, you're delusional. You can paint it as a "non-issue" that to become as effective as possibly you have to grind out ridiculous titles repeating the same nonsense (vanquish or books.. yuck), but most see it as an annoyance. Remember when you relied on your own skill and build rather than fluff-related ranks for better performance out of your char? Yeah..

snaek · May 28, 2010, 11:04 PM // 23:04

striving for efficiency is something you work for, not something you are given. using a bot defeats nullifies this.

Golgotha · May 28, 2010, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

striving for efficiency is something you work for, not something you are given. using a bot defeats nullifies this.

No.

You strive to increase your own skill. You strive to increase your own knowledge. Both of these can be done swifter for some than others doing the same amount of runs. A quick learner excel in this aspect. This cannot be said for titles. It takes the same amount of runs to do it for the unskilled and skilled alike. The former is a learning experience, the latter is nothing more than a grind.

AlsPals · May 28, 2010, 11:10 PM // 23:10

For the sake of someone who wants the title completed, why shouldn't they finish it? Two things:I don't advocate bots, though I thought about using the Alcohol one many, many, many times. Also, some titles take a while to complete, which is fine for some, but not all.

The biggest issue is the game wasn't with titles in mind, so a majority of them are simply "I kept busy" titles. People say "You don't have to do them to enjoy the game." Fair enough. Ill have my bot do it. For PVP this is an absolute no-no. For PVE, I don't condone it, but I sure as hell understand it.

snowman relic · May 28, 2010, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuD

I would imagine this would make someone bot in PvE...

to be honest this is complete bullshit to start kanaxi is worth then all the ectos the armor and the staff put together which just causes a sence of elitism which the top pvp players deserve but when they are sold for 3000$ and above in real life money i find it completly irrespocible on areanets part they should have made whatever they gave the players untradable items cuz heck if i was a rule breaker id bot my ass off for one or a few to sell.

But back on topic personally in pve you see bots in ToA bergin hot springs and any other places that can easily farm event items or big money items in pve bots are very common for easy money but in pvp bots show presteige i hate bots in both because in one it messes up the economy and in the other it becomes a elitefest.

snaek · May 28, 2010, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

No.

You strive to increase your own skill. You strive to increase your own knowledge. Both of these can be done swifter for some than others doing the same amount of runs. A quick learner excel in this aspect. This cannot be said for titles. It takes the same amount of runs to do it for the unskilled and skilled alike. The former is a learning experience, the latter is nothing more than a grind.

what you are touching upon is the basis of most modern rpg leveling mechanics. the only way for your point to truly be correct is for levels to cease to exist completely. there will always be varying degrees of progress. thats just how the (rpg) game works. some of the titles in gw are imbalanced yes and take way too long to obtain i agree, but those are the rules of the game. if you do not like the leveling mechanics, then i suggest playing a game that does not have them.

yes i know gw was supposed to be skill>time, and i think titles are completely bad for the game. but thats what it has become. you either like it or you don't.

(btw, your examples are way over-exaggerating. r1 to r10? getting r8 is far from grind, and the difference in efficiency is close to 0. the only title that has an unrealistic amount of grind is kurz/lux (which is why i used sy for an example). but even there the difference in efficiency is again close to 0.)

Golgotha · May 29, 2010, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

what you are touching upon is the basis of most modern rpg leveling mechanics. the only way for your point to truly be correct is for levels to cease to exist completely.

Hardly. Playing through the game normally without repeating quests, missions or vanquishes allows you to reach level 20. To put this on par with titles that are impossible to accomplish in such a manner is disingenuous.

Quote:

there will always be varying degrees of progress. thats just how the (rpg) game works. some of the titles in gw are imbalanced yes and take way too long to obtain i agree, but those are the rules of the game. if you do not like the leveling mechanics, then i suggest playing a game that does not have them.

If I don't like one aspect (grind based titles) of GW I should find another game? Using that short-sighted logic, if you didn't like Ursan you should just have found another game instead of voicing any opposition. I assume you did just that since you're suggesting the same course of action for someone else, right? I sincerely doubt it.

snaek · May 29, 2010, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by golgotha

Hardly. Playing through the game normally without repeating quests, missions or vanquishes allows you to reach level 20. To put this on par with titles that are impossible to accomplish in such a manner is disingenuous.

playing through eotn normally and completing all content takes you close enough to max in nearly all rep titles. people farm them, because its easier/faster than playing normally. don't get the misconception that these rep titles need to be grinded to be maxed (i actually laugh at some of the people that do farm them, because a few weeks after maxing it, they end up with sometimes near double the max through regular play).

kurz/lux are grindy yes, but they get to be exempted because they are semi-pvp titles. and pvp titles were not meant to be maxed easily.

Quote:

If I don't like one aspect (grind based titles) of GW I should find another game? Using that short-sighted logic, if you didn't like Ursan you should just have found another game instead of voicing any opposition. I assume you did just that since you're suggesting the same course of action for someone else, right? I sincerely doubt it.

like i said earlier, the difference in efficiency is close to 0. hardly stopping anyone from having fun unless they are completely anal. ursan is different because it was gamebreaking and imbalanced. do i agree with pve skills being tied to titles? no. do i think its gamebreaking and imbalanced that they are? no. if you want my honest opinion, pve skills shouldn't even exist at all, but that is a different matter.

this is straying way too far from the original argument, which was you should enjoy playing the game. if your going to let a 0.1% drop in efficiency ruin your enjoyment, then quite frankly i can't help you there (which btw, i find a bit ironic because efficiency is often associated with farming and grinding).

Golgotha · May 29, 2010, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

playing through eotn normally and completing all content takes you close enough to max in nearly all rep titles. people farm them, because its easier/faster than playing normally. don't get the misconception that these rep titles need to be grinded to be maxed (i actually laugh at some of the people that do farm them, because a few weeks after maxing it, they end up with sometimes near double the max through regular play).

Completing all content? That would take longer than grinding them out with books and just as fun. Where is the laugh smiley? Skills should not be tied to grind based entities, period. I'm sure if there was an option to automatically max all the EotN titles after the main quest, just about everyone (if not everyone) would do it. If maxing them manually was so fun, they wouldn't. I've finished "regular play" numerous times without coming close to maxing the titles.

Quote:

kurz/lux are grindy yes, but they get to be exempted because they are semi-pvp titles. and pvp titles were not meant to be maxed easily.

Then they shouldn't be tied to PvE skills.

Quote:

like i said earlier, the difference in efficiency is close to 0. hardly stopping anyone from having fun unless they are completely anal. ursan is different because it was gamebreaking and imbalanced. do i agree with pve skills being tied to titles? no. do i think its gamebreaking and imbalanced that they are? no. if you want my honest opinion, pve skills shouldn't even exist at all, but that is a different matter.

this is straying way too far from the original argument, which was you should enjoy playing the game. if your going to let a 0.1% drop in efficiency ruin your enjoyment, then quite frankly i can't help you there (which btw, i find a bit ironic because efficiency is often associated with farming and grinding).

You can keep typing that there is a "0.1%" drop in efficiency, but we both know this isn't even close to true. I'm not sure who you're trying to convince anymore -- me or yourself.

Ghost Dog · May 29, 2010, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxOfCox

I don't think OP grasps how rich some players got from botting farms.

I don't think people grasp what rich is anymore.

Nerel · May 29, 2010, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

I don't think people grasp what rich is anymore.

That's so very true. You've got 10 million gold in ectos/armbraces/Black dyes and cash? Congratulations, welcome to the lower rungs of Middle class living in Tyria. Sad but true

bhavv · May 29, 2010, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

Completing all content? That would take longer than grinding them out with books and just as fun. Where is the laugh smiley? Skills should not be tied to grind based entities, period. I'm sure if there was an option to automatically max all the EotN titles after the main quest, just about everyone (if not everyone) would do it. If maxing them manually was so fun, they wouldn't. I've finished "regular play" numerous times without coming close to maxing the titles.

Disagree completely. Completing all content is finishing all the missions, dungeons, and other elite areas. After you've done all that, you are free to repeat anything that you want if you enjoy doing so.

PVE skills are also optional. If your not bothered by the EOTN / Allegience / Sunspear titles, then simply play the game without using PVE skills?

I like using the PVE wards, and Snowstorm / Breath of the Great Dwarf on my elly. I only have about Rank 6 in my EOTN titles which was very easy to obtain, and is plenty enough to make these skills work fine.

If you dont want to grind, then how about not playing at all instead of botting? I've stopped playing many times after getting bored, and then slowly keep on doing an extra vanquish, dungeon or mission every now and then.

You dont need to maximise every title, and you dont need to use PVE skills to enjoy playing this game, and neither are those things compulsory.

I like other games that have a 'botcatching' mechanism built into the game, usually they put unvulnerable dummy enemies in select areas of the game, and if anyone attacks them for too long their character gets sent to a nice in game hell / prison type thing.